Qazaqstan Respýblikasynyń jańa zań jobasynda destrýktivti dini aǵymdardyń atribýttaryn nemese syrtqy belgilerin jurtshylyqaldynda kórsetip júrýge tyiym salynady. Radikaldy jáne ekstremistik uiymdardyń ókilderin qandai belgileri boiynsha tanýǵa bolady? Osy jóninide biz Pavlodar Konfessiia aralyq qarym-qatynastardy taldaý jáne damytý ortalyǵynyń direktory Gúlnaz Razdyqovamen suhbattasqan edik.
– Gúlnaz Maqsutqyzy, dini kiimderdiń kei túrlerin kiiýge tyiym salý qoǵamda qyzý rezonans týǵyzdy, óitkeni keibir adamdar muny dinge senýshilerdiń quqyǵyna qysym jasaýshylyq dep baǵalaidy. Retsiz ósken dáý saqaldar, qysqa shalbarlar jáne qara hidjabtar sonshalyqty qaýipti me?
– Bes jyldan astam ýaqyt boiy ár túrli dástúrli emes jalǵan dini kýlttermen jumys istep kele jatqan adam retinde aitarym – dinshildiktiń syrtqy belgileri adamnyń radikaldyǵynyń negizgi sipattamasy emes. Óitkeni onyń eń basty qaýiptiligi saqal men qysqa shalbarda emes, adamnyńsol ideologiiamen ýlanǵan sanasynda. Suhbattarymnyń bireýinde «taqyia» týraly aitqan bolatynmyn, onda adam óziniń ishki ideologiiasynyń syrtqy belgilerin, minez-qulqyn ádeii jasyrady. Bundai áreket ásirese, «Hizbýt-Tahrir» dini-ekstremistik uiymynyń nemese takfir-jihadshyl aǵymynyń tabynýshylaryna tán. Mysaly, jańa fakti retinde aitýǵa bolady: ózderin bizdiń elimizdegi dástúrli islamnyń jolyn qýýshylar retinde tanytqan adamdar Siriiaǵa barýǵa áreket jasaǵan. Olar osylaisha imamdardy ǵana emes, quqyq qorǵaý organdarynyń qyzmetkerlerin aldaǵan. Dini senimniń syrtqy belgilerinen, saqaldan jáne izaradan jáne t.b. qutylǵan adamnyń quqyqqa qarsy is-qimyl, sonyń ishinde terakt jasaýy ábden múmkin ǵoi. Qazir kóptegen salafitter syrtqy túrlerin ózgertkenin esten shyǵarmaǵan jón, sondyqtan da syrtqy belgilerdi negizge alýǵa bolmaidy.
– Destrýktivti dini aǵymdardyń jolyn qýýshylardy qandai belgilerboiynsha ajyratýǵa bolady, tolyǵyraq toqtalsańyz.
– Minez-qulyqtyq, psihologiialyq, dialogtyq kórsetkishter bar ǵoi, solar boiynsha adam radikaldyq nemese dástúrli emes dini aǵymnyń jolyn qýýshy ekendigin baiqaýǵa bolady. Siz jaqyn adamdaryńyzdyń boiynanosyndai belgilerdiń bireýin baiqap qalsańyz, birden dúrligýdiń qajeti joq. Taǵy da basa aitamyn, diagnostika adammen kózbe-kóz sóilesý barysynda jasalady, qashyqtyqtan ol adam týraly tujyrym jasaý múmkin emes. Destrýktivti aǵymdardyń jolyn qýýshylardyń synyna ushyrap, anekdottaryna negiz bolatyn is-áreket jasamaý kerek. Bul belgilera dep tilerdiń týǵan týystary, jaqyndary úshin paidalyraq. Menbalalarynyń qandai mazhab boiynsha namaz oqityndaryn, qandai dinikitaptar oqityndaryn bilmeitin ata-analarǵa aqyl-keńesterdi jii beremin.
Buqaralyq dini aǵartý jumysy – azamattarymyzdyń din saýattylyǵy úshin jasalatyn tuǵyrnama bolyp tabylady. Aqparattandyrylǵan bolsań, qarýlandyń degen sóz.Sondyqtan da nazarymyzdy tolyq kólemde bolatyn kelesi belgilerge aýdarýymyz qajet. Olar dini kýltke tartylýdyń bastapqy satysyn da kórinýi múmkin. Birinshisi, árine, atynyń ózgerýi. Adam bizdiń qulaǵymyzǵasińgen óziniń dástúrli esimin aýystyrǵysy keledi. Olardyń kópshiligi keiinnen jeke kýálikterin aýystyryp, ákeleriniń attaryn alyp tastaidy.«Meniń ákem namaz oqymaidy, iaǵni ol – shaitan» - dep málimdeidi olar. Olardyń pikirinshe, qazaqtyń kóptegen esimderi shariattyń nemese shynaiyislamnyń kanondaryna qaishy keledi. Qos esimderi de bolýy múmkin,qoǵamda ózderiniń ádettegi attarymen, al óz tanystarynyń arasynda basqaatpen (kýnia) júredi. «Shaitan» attary tizbesiniń ishinde Kún, Tań, Ai, Tasbólikteri jáne at qoiýda putqa tabynýshylyq belgileri bar t.t. enedi. Ekinshi. Leksikonnyń ózgerýi. Adam mynadai arabizmderdi belsendi qoldanady: «Bismilliah», «Inshallah», «ahi», «ýhti», «Mashallah», «Djazakalahýhairan». Mundai sózder dástúrli dinge senýshilerdiń leksikonynda da bolýy múmkin, al destrýktivti aǵymdardyń ókilderi olardyneǵurlym kúshti emotsiiamen aitady: mysaly, «Mashallah!!!»,«Aýzýbilliah!!!», «Sýbhanallah!!!». Iaǵni arab sózderin emotsiialyq reńin kúsheitip qoldanady. Úshinshi. Tamaqtaný ádetiniń ózgerýi. Olar etti namaz oqityn bazardaǵytanystarynan ǵana satyp alady. Is-sharalarda ettiń iesiniń kim ekeninbilmese, ortaq dastarhannan as ishpeidi. Mal islamnyń kanondary boiynsha soiylmasa, ony «haram» dep sanap, is-sharalarǵa, týystarymen kezdesýlerge barmaýǵa tyrysady.
– Jańadan qosylǵan «saqaldylardyń» turmystarynda ózgerister bola ma?
– Árine, adamnyń ómir súrý ortasy ózgeredi. Destrýktivti dini aǵymdardyń jolyn qýýshylar «qýǵynǵa ýshyraý» dertine shaldyǵatynyn atap ótken jón. Olar arnaiy qyzmetter nemese quqyq qorǵaý organdary olardy táýlik boiy baqylaidy, tyń tyńdaidy dep oilaidy, sondyqtan da olar turatyn jerlerin jii aýystyrady, turmysta askettik joldy tańdaidy. Olardyńjihazy kóship-qonýǵa yńǵaily, úlken shkaftary, statsionarlyq kompiýterleri, turmystyq tehnikasy joq. Úlken ainalar, tumarlar, dástúrli músinder (mysaly, qasietti oryndardan ákelingen, balalardyń, otbasynyń sýretteri, magnitter jáne t.b.) bolmaidy. Teledidarlary, radiolary joq (nemese matamen jabylady ne qabyrǵaǵa ekrany burylyp qoiylady). Alaida internetke qoljetimdi gadjetteri, smartfondary mindetti túrde bolady. Bul mindetti shart, óitkeni olar barlyq «pátýalaryn»(nusqaýlyqtaryn) internet-arnalar, atap aitqanda, áleýmettik jeliler arqyly alady. Sondyqtan da televizor men radio olar úshin haram, alinternet haram emes.
– Gúlnaz Maqsutqyzy, al salt-dástúrlerge, otbasylyq saltanattarǵaqatysty ne aitasyz, bul salada ózgerister bar ma?
– Sáláfitter ózderin Sýnnanyń jolyn qýýshylarmyz dep sanaǵanymen, olarqonaq shaqyrmaýǵa tyrysady. Aita ketetin jalǵyz jaǵdai – olar balatýǵandaǵy shildehanany – «aqyqany» óte qarapaiym, jupyny atap ótedi. Qoǵamdyq oryndarǵa barýdan, halyqtyq merekelerge qatysýdan bas tartady. Týǵan kún, toi, úilený toiy degen bolmaidy. Qazaq halqynyń «tusaý kesý», «balany qyrqynan shyǵarý», «as berý»,«jumalyq», «jeti shelpek» jáne t.b. salttaryn saqtamaidy. Týǵan-týystarynyń zirattaryna, kesenelerge barmaidy, namaz oqyǵanda betterin sipamaidy, bata jasamaidy. Qazaq halqynyń barlyq salt-dástúrleri islamnyń kanondaryna sáikes bolsa-daǵy, olardy «bida» - jańadan engizilgen dep, joqqa shyǵarady, Beiit basyna tastar ornatylmaidy, qabirler jermen tegisteledi. Qaitys bolǵandar týraly týystaryna habarlamaidy, olardy shaqyrmaidy. As berý, zirat basyna barý jáne t.b. ǵuryptardy olar qajet emes, (shirk) dep esepteidi. Osyndai erekshelikter týraly Qazaqstan musylmandary dini basqarmasynyń imamdary menteologtary óte jaqsy aityp júr.
– Internette fýtbol oiyny kezinde Qazaqstan Respýblikasynyńánurany oinalǵanda sáláfitterdiń ornynan turmaǵany týraly beinejazba taraldy. Muny qalai túsinýge bolady?
– Muny Qazaqstan Respýblikasynyń ánuranyna qurmet seziminiń,patriotizmniń joqtyǵy dep túsindirýge bolady. Olar Gimn oinalǵan kezde oryndarynan turmaidy, qoldaryn keýdelerine qoimaidy. QR Ata Zańyn qurmettemeidi. Meniń tájiribemde sýdia zalǵa kirgende, ekstremistiń sottaornynan turýdan úzildi-kesildi bas tartqan jaǵdai boldy. Ol bul qylyǵyn sotty sot dep sanamaimyn dep túsindirdi. Degenmen de, birneshe áńgimelesý ótkizilgennen keiin, sotqa qurmet kórsetýge kóndi. Kóptegen sportshylar da jarystar ashylý aldynda elimizdiń Gimni oinaǵan kezde, qoldaryn keýdelerine qoimaidy. Memlekettik organdarda qyzmet isteýden bas tartýdyda osy qatarǵa qoiýǵa bolady. Dini ustanymdary boiynsha «haram» memleketke jumys istemeýge tyrysady, olar kóbinese jeke menshik biznespen ainalysady, ózin-ózi jumyspen qamtidy.
– Áleýmettik jelide salafitter meshitterdiń imamdaryn qaralaýnaýqandaryn jii ótkizedi. Bul qandai maqsatpen jasalady?
– Sáláfitter Qazaqstan musylmandary dini basqarmasynyń imamdaryn jekkóredi, olardyń ýaǵyzdaryn tyńdamaidy, ata-babalarymyzdyń dástúrlidinderine qyzyǵýshylyq tanytpaidy. Onyń ornyna olar ózderiniń «internet-ýaǵyzdaýshylaryn» – sheihterin tyńdaidy. Aitpaqshy, osy ýaǵyzdaýshylardyń kópshiligi qazir qylmystyq jazalaryn óteýde. Olardyń meshittegi juma namazyna qatysýy reglamenttelgen. Meshitke olar shariatkanondary boiynsha juma namazy tek meshitte oqylý qajet bolǵan soń keledi. Olar namazdyń mindetti bóligin ǵana oqidy, sosyn jergiliktijamaǵatpen jáne imamdarmen kezdespeýge tyrysyp, birden ketip qalady.Namaz oqylyp bolǵan soń olar otyrǵan adamdardy basa-kóktep, attap ótip, tezirek ketýge tyrysady. Bul meshitti, basqa dinge senýshilerdi syilamaý ǵoi. Olarǵa «kápirler» degen ataq taǵyp, ózderin basqalarǵa qarsy qoiyp, jamaǵattyń birligin buzady, iritki salady. Al Islamnyń eń basty talaptarynyń biri – úmettiń birligi emes pe.
– Biz radikaldar týraly aityp otyrmyz, al sáláfitterdiń arasynda birtoǵa, ortashalary da bar ǵoi?
– Sáláfizmniń kelisimge keletin ideologiia emes ekendigin tájiribe kórsetipotyr. Aǵymnyń jolyn qýýshylar ortasha nemese radikal da bolýy múmkin, bizde radikaldylyqty anyqtaityn barometr nemese gradýsnik joq. Bizadamnyń sózine, nietterine jáne is-áreketterine nazar aýdaramyz. Adamdy jaidan jai ekstremist nemese terrorist dep atai salýǵa bolmaidy, bulúshin sot sheshimi qajet. Sondyqtan da biz barlyq sáláfitter ekstremist bolyp ketedi dep aita almaimyz. Ekstremizm degenimiz – oi, ideologiia. Oidan is-áreketke adamdardyń barlyǵy árqashan kóshe qoimaidy. Sáláfitterdiń arasynda da islamnyń qandai baǵytyn ustanyp júrgenderin túsinbei júrgen, zańdy saqtaityn adamdar barshylyq. Jabyq dini topta uzaq ýaqyt boiy bolǵan adamnyń tonneldik qara-aq oilaýy qalyptasatynyn esten shyǵarmaǵan jón. Ol túrli sebepterge bailanysty radikaldanýy múmkin: psihologiialyq jaraqat, ómirde joly bolmaýy, áleýmettik-turmystyq faktor, syrtqy ortanyń yqpaly jáne t.t. Kez kelgen faktor iske qosý tetigi bolýy múmkin. Qazaqstanda ekstremizm jáne terrorizm úshin sottalǵandardyń 100 paiyzy salafizmniń jolyn qýǵandar. Esterińizge túsirińizdershi, Egipette ońtaily sátte sáláfitter partiia quryp, bilikke umtylǵan joq pa. Bul memlekettik qurylysqa túbirimen qarsy, jaý adamdardyń oqshaýlanǵan toby. Sondyqtan da bul jaiǵana Qudaiǵa qulshylyq etý emes. Osy ideologiia elimizdiń ulttyq qaýipsizdigine qater tóndirip, islamnyń kanondaryn dástúrli túsindirýdi burmalaidy.
– Sáláfizm siiaqty qaýipti qubylysqa Qazaqstanda zańnamalyq deńgeide nege tyiym salynbaidy?
– Iá, bizdiń qoǵamymyzdyń sáláfittermen jumys isteý esh nátije bermeidi,osy ideologiiaǵa tyiym salý kerek dep esepteitin bir bóligi bar. Alaida, olardyń bizdiń azamattarymyz, birimizdiń aǵa-baýyrymyz, apa-sińlimiz ekendigin túsinýimiz qajet. «Adasqannyń aiyby joq, qaityp úiirin tapqan soń» - degen qazaq halqynyń naqyl sózi bar emes pe. Súrinbeitin tuiaq joq, adaspaityn adam joq. Bir jaqsylyǵy, olardyń kópshiligi qatelerin túsinip, dástúrli dinimizge bet buryp jatyr. Osyndai mysaldardy kóptep keltirýge bolady. Bul jeńilis emes, naǵyz erlik, ózi úshin ǵana emes, sońynan ergen basqalar úshin úlken jaýapkershilikti seziný. Al bizdiń qoǵamymyz olarǵa qolushyn sozyp, qatarymyzǵa qosylýǵa múmkindik berýge daiyn. Eń bastysy, olar din adamdardy jaýlastyrmai, bir-birine jaqyndatatyn senim ekendigin túsinýleri kerek.
- Arnaiy ýaqyt bólip, suhbat bergenińizge rahmet!
